Current Disqus discussion (moving here!) @AugustoL
@papa_raw thanks for you contributions and work you have done, but in my your proposal is ridiculous because:
Sorry if it sounds harsh, but In my eyes after reading that proposal and the way you handle it you just want to get way more money form the organization that the one you deserved for you 2min article and 7 tweets.
I’ve given a transparent cost estimate based off of the cost of paid social media advertising. I didn’t come up with the number, it’s the market rate! I’d love to hear what you think is a fair valuation — this proposal is to provoke a conversation around how to pay for marketing.
Yes — definitely!
We should come up with a standard payment for impact, whether its Reputation, DXD, or ETH — an advantage of DAOs is that we have the ability to protocolize KPIs. Imagine how successful the DAO can be if we successfully incentivize the impact of thousands of engagements per day on Twitter. We could fully mobilize a marketing army.
On the contrary — wouldn’t you rather pay for impact if you’re doing a marketing proposal? Otherwise you are provably paying for nothing! Would you pay for nothing from a developer? Absolutely not — you pay for a product to be delivered.
It would be great to set up analytics to see how referrals are working. I’d love to be able to demonstrate a precise clickthrough rate! This is again a positive for DAOs being able to protocolize KPIs.
This is absolutely false — the article did not take two minutes, the tweets did not write themselves, and I’ve spent quite a bit of time building up a network of blockchain and cryptocurrency enthusiasts in the past two years. You’re not being harsh, you’re being disingenuous. I’m guessing you’ve never had to valuate marketing proposals in the past, which is why I’m challenging you now to do so.
My questions to you:
a) What do you see is a fair compensation for the work, and can you explain your logic for the value you’ve reached?
b) Why is your valuation logically superior to my own?
c) How can we protocolize the marketing valuation methodology you’re describing?
By the 2min I mean the 2 min read time, at least thats what it says on medium, it takes 2 min to fully read the article.
WHAT? We want to build DEFI products and invest the DXdao funds wisely, why should we spent money the bitconnect way?We dont need a marketing army, we may need marketing but I think the good useful products with goo user experience being 100% decentralized will speak for themselves.
For the tweets I would pay nothing, I dont see why we should pay people for tweets, its completely unreasonable, for the articles you wrote maybe a few hundred dollars and some REP? 100-200 USD and rep.
It is not superior,it is just different, this is a decentralized autonomous organization, you will find people that will think very different and will valuate things very different than you.
IMO we dont, we alreayd have workers with marketing responsibilities and I think thats enough.
110 % against that, I think it is crazy, but maybe in the community supports you, it would be good to see what other people in the community think.
Hi @papa_raw, thanks for sparking an engaging discussion.
A lot of your argument hinges on KPIs, like CPC, CPM, CPF, etc. For that you ask for 18 DXD which amounts to 1548.00 USD. If you were paid (in ) that amount, then what (in $) was the DXdao’s ROI?
I don’t think we should pay people to work, but I think we should pay people to have work done. Only productivity is important, the amount of hours worked is not.
Actually stating that people are paid for the amount of hours worked and not for their impact is even likely to be illegal in most jurisdiction (could lead to workers reclassified as employees and individual dxDAO members being sued because the dxDAO doesn’t provide any corporate veil).
However looking at Tweets, it looks like the engagements are not reported correctly. From my understanding, engagements includes Like/Retweet/Answers and the numbers do not match (are lower than reported).
Hi Pat. I appreciate the tweeting you did and the article you wrote. Thanks for contributing and I do think you deserve some recognition from DXdao for your contributions.
The proposal doesn’t seem ridiculous to me, and it raises some interesting questions.
Does DXdao want to pay for marketing? If so, what does it want to drive traffic to?
My sense is that the products would be the focus of any marketing efforts. But the products are fairly nascent and I don’t think really at a stage where it makes sense for DXdao to be paying for marketing. Indeed, there are a few liquidity incentive programs that are being discussed for Omen, but they are not active yet as the community is trying to feel out whether the platform is ready.
I also think there is lower hanging fruit, so to speak, in the form of improving the content on DXdao’s sites.
Finally, it’s worth looking around at what else is going on with Twitter and DXdao. If you take a look at the Omen twitter feed, there are several influencers that are spurring attention for Omen and DXdao. Is providing incentives necessary? And if DXdao did compensate for impressions, what is the implied budget for that? There are quite a few tweets out there that match or exceed the reach of yours.
That all said, I do think content creation is important for DXdao and writing about it isn’t easy as the products and systems that comprise DXdao are complex. With your DAO / DeFi experience, you are well qualified for this task and if you’re interested in doing some writing for DXdao, perhaps ask around in the #DxBiz channel on keybase and see if there’s some ideas the community would support.
Using this formula:
The ROI is:
(3195 - 1548) / 1548
I’ve responded to your comment — the calculation was correct, but here is an article explaining it fully.
I think the DXdao should create specialized budgets for its important product and campaign launches. When we launch DXswap, for instance, we should explicitly create an engagements “bounty budget” (e.g. $10k) that is split between all participants.
This type of “matrix management” is in the vein of Sourcecred or Aracred, and we should also consider experimenting with these technologies (bonus as they’re Web3).
Some random thoughts:
Every marketing strategy is balanced between: paid, owned, earned channels. When DXswap is released, a strategy should be considered that pushes out its main competitor Uniswap. Since they have strong “earned” presence in the DeFi community, perhaps it is better to pursue incentivization to out-compete them for audience share.
Definitely — but I also manage my own company, so I don’t mind being solicited either if my eyes aren’t on something!
What Twitter calls an engagement is not necessarily what webfx calls an engagement.
Otherwise why would webfx mention “click” at 0.38$ if they assume a click is an engagement (which should be 1.35$ according to webfx)?
Hey @clesaege —
It looks like you’re right, actually. I checked the definitions across multiple websites (and Twitter Ads’ glossary as well) and different pricing websites are treating the definition of clicks and engagements differently. It did feel high to begin with, so this makes total sense.
I’m adjusting the numbers in the proposal.
EDIT: Looks like it comes to $1357.67 after adjusting — this definitely feels “right” as far as the calculations go.
@ingalandia this would adjust the DXdao ROI to -12% (ouch!)
This is a great discussion and very important to DXswap, a DXdao liquidity mining initiative or other public campaigns where the DXdao can utilize its community and also serve as another way to distribute REP & DXD more widely.
Given that, my questions are more broad but I think @papa_raw campaign and work is a good template and potential precedent for future community contributors.
Another strategy is affiliate marketing. I’ve done it on my newsletter a little, most recently for MCDEX through “DeFi Pulse Drop” campaign. The link I share is unique to me and I receive a cut of any trading fees of someone using my link, but only if they trade on the platform. I imagine this could introduce some Web2 problems? But it would be harder to game.
Anyway, it’s worth discussing some of these larger questions in this context, so there’s a foundation for upcoming marketing campaigns to scale.
It would be great to talk about this more on today’s Governance Discussion or on tomorrow’s Weekly Meeting
If there’s no more discussion here, I’ll be resubmitting with the new calculations per @clesaege’s feedback.
What are the new numbers you plan to resubmit?
$1357.57 worth of DXD valued at current DXtrust price.
Ok what’s the math behind it?
The adjusted values are in the proposal doc (gdoc)
@papa_raw so in the end you still want to get paid 1k usd for 1 article in linkedin that takes two minutes to read and 1 tweet from your account that has a bit more than 1k followers?
I will vote against it if the proposal is submitted, but I in case you submit it how the community can verify that you received the amount of clicks you are saying you received in your document? Where did you took that data?
@papa_raw Thanks for readjusting the requested values.
Also I’d like to point out that the fact that something has a cost doesn’t mean it is worth paying nor that it is the best offer available (In particular paying 5$ per linkedin click seems like a very bad deal, it may be worth it for some business when people clicking are really targeted potential customers but not in the general case).
I’d also like to point out that in marketing campaign announcers determine a specific demographic they are ready to pay for (in this case papa_raw follower demographic is probably relevent).
It’s also unclear what constitute a click. Is it clicking on a tweet to expend it a “click” in the ad industry sense? Or is it referring to a Twitter ad (which contains some image and a link to a website).
I think using engagement would be a clearer metric and more in line with what is worth paying.
To be honest, after reading this comment, I’ve decided not to submit any proposal. If this is the level of nonconstructive engagement I can expect from members of the DXdao, trying to work through this is not worth my time. I’ve been more than patient in trying to steer this conversation, which was approached as an open dialogue on how to value marketing work.