Mix.eth [seeking feedback on proposal]

dOrg would like to solicit feedback and suggestions from the community on the following proposal. Please leave comments below.

Mix.finance/Mix.eth - A portfolio tracker with privacy and security as its core.

The goal of Mix is to deliver a portfolio manager for the Ethereum ecosystem with privacy, security and a good user experience as a core feature. With the emergence of DeFi, decentralised autonomous organisation frameworks (Aragon, Daostack) and privacy enabling technologies (zk-SNARKs) we can finally deliver a next level wallet interface/portfolio manager.

Core features:

Portfolio with available assets and defi/mix services in one list

Mixing assets with Tornado.cash

Earning Interest

All integrated DeFi/Mixer services will share a common design language

Protocols:

Track portfolio without a web3 enabled browser

Mix.eth will provide a read-only mode for users without a web3 enabled wallet.

The Role of Dxdao

Decentralisation

One of Dxdao´s core missions is to push decentralisation forward and be a prime example of how things can and should be done in the Cryptocurrency ecosystem. Mix.eth will be one of the first application which will be developed, managed, owned and hosted in a decentralised way. With Mix.eth, we want to create a Backup access solution for all DeFi/Mixing services.

Ownership of Mix.eth

The Dxdao will control the ENS domain mix.eth, which will be the only access point to the dapp. We believe this will increase the security of Mix as every update of the frontend will need to go through a proposal/vote.

Decentralised Hosting

The website will be hosted via IPFS in connection with the mix.eth ENS domain. Every time a team is proposing a new version the Dxdao needs to make sure that the new version has been audited.

Grants Page

Mix will have its own grants page which will be managed by the Dxdao. Grants will be used to reward external contributors primarily with Dxdao reputation to foster our own developer community and improve the reputation distribution substantially.

Relayer network management

Relayers are required to enable a more private mixing of assets via Tornado.cash. Relayers can requested to be listed via a proposal to the Dxdao. Additionally the Dxdao can incentivise users to hold DXD Tokens by providing a discount in relayer fees.

Deliverables

  • Mix and withdraw assets from Tornado.cash

    • Mix a variety of assets, initially including Dai, Ether, USDC, cDai, cUSDC, USDT
    • Interface for deposit and backup of tornado.cash notes.
    • Interface for withdrawing anonymized asset via tornado.cash notes.
  • Dxdao relayer network

    • Relayers are used to send withdraw transactions on behalf of users. This increases the degree of privacy as there is no connection between the users’ wallet which was used for the deposit and the new wallet which is going to receive the mixed asset.
    • Onboard at least 3 relayers and reward them Reputation each.
    • Detecting if user has a specific amount of DXD to provide free mixing service.(they only pay for transaction fee)
12 Likes

Hey all. As mentioned in some of the other channels and on the call where Geronimo walked through it, I think Mix is looking amazing, and set to be a game changer, especially on the privacy preservation side vs other trackers.

Just wanted to post something here that we briefly spoke about on that call, but also relates to the recent post about revenue streams, namely adding membership rights to DXD token.

Firstly, it involves integrating Loopring’s zkRollup DEX protocol, specifically the actual DEX product, https://loopring.io, into Mix.eth, so Mix users can view their assets which are deposited in the DEX contract. It can also have the deposit/withdraw function, allowing users to enter/exit the zkRollup.

By doing so, perhaps Loopring can allow DXD holders, to enjoy a preferable tier of fee discounts. Fee schedule is seen here, trading fees for takers currently between 0.06%-0.1%. We did something called an “Honor VIP” for the first 1,500 entrants into the exchange, so something similar could maybe be done for DXD holders.

Besides adding utility to DXD, it fits with the Mix theme of A) supporting DeFi services, and B) comfort with SNARK-based protocols (although in this case for scaling Eth, not privacy).

I am unsure if/what rights can be bestowed on DXD within Loopring.io (as you see current tiers are volume & LRC based), but I believe Mix.eth will add value, so am hoping rewarding the dxDAO is viable. Especially if Mix can become a decently used portal to actually enter/exit the rollup. For now, just a thought.

Viewing a user’s assets + supporting deposits/withdrawals should be trivial. For context, this is what the Loopring DEX contract is: https://etherscan.io/address/loopringio.eth. Currently $1m of assets in there. Can see more stats at https://duneanalytics.com/loopring

Thanks. Please let me know if any questions.

2 Likes

On the " Mixing assets with Tornado.cash" page,
Would it be possible to add an IP identifier so people will be more aware of that aspect of keeping their funds private?
This is available on tornado.cash and I think it’s really useful

6 Likes

Thanks for the feedback. Will be included!

1 Like

Logo seems similar to nearprotocol.com and mix.eth.link not works for me

On Decentralized Hosting it can also be deployed in swarm .Is the decentralized hosting solution supported by the ETH Foundation, it also makes no harm it having it deployed in two different decentralized hosting network.

3 Likes

Thanks for the feedback, we’ve incorporated this into an MVP proposal here:

Please let us know what you think.

Anyone want to address that The Block article stating that Tornado.Cash doesn’t really make your stuff private?

I think this is definately a project that needs to be worked upon more quickly and I would be happy to support proposals around it. Privacy is a very important space along with portfolio balancing so it could be a great DAPP and usecase for DXDAO - I would like to hear about the taking of fees on the project to DXDAO holders or otherwise as I believe this was the initial objective - otherwise how DXDAO holders benefit as they are the funders.

4 Likes

I strongly agree with Augusto’s comments on the google doc that the proposed rate of $2500 is very high compared to what DXdao is paying right now for more experienced developers.

@orishim I recommend you review existing worker proposals that have passed for the DXdao to get context on what rates would make sense.

In general I think it is OK to only ask for ETH instead of REP, although I would have a preference for developers who want to take an active long term role in DXdao. I also think that rates should be lower for devs who are working for the first time with the DXdao. Once developers show they are capable and have serious interest in the DXdao, then their rates could be raised.

Hi John, I’ve made edits to reflect your comments (reduced the rate, added Rep allocation).

Two quick things I’d like to point out:

  1. dOrg has already successfully completed its OpenRaise deliverables with Dxdao. We work hard to be a dependable agency with consistent quality and reliability, regardless of which individual developers are on a given project.
  2. dOrg already has 2.78% Rep in Dxdao and has been involved for over a year, so it is really not fair to depict us as devs who do not have a serious interest in Dxdao.

@orishim I believe neither of the devs slated to work on this project for dOrg have worked with the DXdao before. Please correct me if I am wrong. Furthermore, your changes of reducing the pay to $2000 per week while adding REP I believe are still far too high.

Again, I believe it is ok to ask for ETH instead of REP if that is preferable.

dOrg has already successfully completed its OpenRaise deliverables with Dxdao. We work hard to be a dependable agency with consistent quality and reliability, regardless of which individual developers are on a given project.

I think it is important to know which developers are going to work in the project. Also to confirm their experience level.

Personally I would take it as a personal offense to my work done for the dxdao if a developer working on a MVP is payed the double as Im getting payed, where I took the technical lead in multiple projects and been working full time for two months now.

And I think the rest of the developers and contributors that have been involved till now would feel the same way.

I would recommend use at maximum the same monthly salary that was used in the same work proposals, 3000 USD per month for a first time full time engagement.

5 Likes

3000/mo is what I’d expect the salary to be for an intern in university, not senior engineers who are technical leads for multiple complex projects. It’s also far too low for the level of engineering experience to be able to execute an MVP of the complexity of Mix.eth.

We need to increase the pay for devs who’ve been around longer first, but we also need to avoid the trap of seniority equaling higher pay. One solution would be to have a standard pay schedule for devs, something like:

  • 50% discount for first 2 months of work
  • $8,000/mo + 1% REP/mo for senior engineers (technical leads with extensive experience)
  • $4,000/mo + 0.5% REP/mo for junior engineers (new devs receiving training from senior engineers)
6 Likes

Hi everybody!
My points

  1. It is not clear for me what is REP valuation when people ask 0.5%-1% REP. Current total REP is aprx 1250000 points. After DXD distribution dxDAO hold more than 1m USD of assets. If person ask 1% of REP is aprx 12500 REP points. From my understanding it is fast way for creating new REP whales. It so hard to slash any REP whales in fair way. During last months more than new 250000 REP minted and I dont see any real changes in voting activity. So my proposal is limit new REP minting with 3000 REP points per address per contribution and discussing REP points fair valuation on six months basis.
  2. USD engineers bounty it is hard topic. Everybody living in different places with different life costs. From my view fair dxDAO offer for next 6 months might be
  • 50% discount for first 2 months of work
  • $5,000/mo + 3000 REP points for senior engineers (technical leads with extensive experience)
  • $2,500/mo + 2000 REP points for junior engineers (new devs receiving training from senior engineers)

REP reward for final product delivery not per months.

5 Likes

Hey all, we have paused development on Mix until this rate issue is sorted out by the community.

We’re excited to see the discussions brewing around @JohnKelleher 's Budgeting post and @AugustoL’s Worker Compensation guideline.

We believe that the rate we settled on ($2k/week per dev) is fair for the reasons stated above, but will hold off on making a proposal until more community voices are heard.

2 Likes

Where is the revenue generation from mix.eth and how does it help DXDAO holders and REP holders?

1 Like

There is alot of core problems with this proposal and I will explain them:

1.) Your are not giving any value to REP or DXDAO holders, you are giving a membership of basically a free software platform - this holds little to no value for us.

2.)The minute we release anything from the treasury the DXDAO is at a loss and holding all the risk for the project when we get nothing in return. With this proposal we will get nothing but a membership for free mixed transactions - if the projects is successful, thus we are assuming all the risk.

3.) You have already stopped development on the project showing little faith in the DXDAO ecosystem - for that I don’t really want to fund or give funds to people that show so little faith in the ecosystem to be paid. You should show and prove, right now we have screenshots, not an alpha concept and not even an MVP.

4.) There is no mention of ownership by the DXDAO, it sounds like we will host everything for you and you will develop code get paid and probably leave it to us and the end, when finance runs dry. This is highlighted by your non integration with REP/DXDAO holders and revenue sources.

5.) Everything is skewed towards your success so you want funding and we get no initial part of any revenue or any codebase. I believe these are terrible tactics and if these sort of proposals in the future come up and are actively voted on will run the treasury dry. This is a completely one sided proposol that offers no value investment ratio.

To be honest I had faith in this project, I am severely disappointed with the tactics being used and I personally do not want to fund developers who want all the faith in them and will not have faith in us. If this is titled as one of the flagship projects of the DXDAO we have alot of work to do - as it’s set up as the first project on the official DXDAO website. Such a shame.

5 Likes

:call_me_hand:Hi guys! Generally I think it’s always a good idea to ask another team, for instance:
https://raidguild.org/hire
and get to know their price.
They call themselves ‘A Decentralized Collective of Mercenaries Ready to slay Your Web3 Product Demons’, they’re from molochDAO and meta-cartel. It would also give the project traction to a new similar audience.

2 Likes

1.) Your are not giving any value to REP or DXDAO holders, you are giving a membership of basically a free software platform - this holds little to no value for us.

I would argue that an open source portfolio manager with tornado cash integration provides value not only for REP and DXD holders but actually the whole ethereum ecosystem. An MVP is a minimal viable product, which is not primarily build to generate revenue. It is rather a first Stepping-stone to an very important service/product which is def. capable to generate revenue pretty quickly. I´ve wrote a blog about how the DXdao can make money with mix.eth

2.)The minute we release anything from the treasury the DXDAO is at a loss and holding all the risk for the project when we get nothing in return. With this proposal we will get nothing but a membership for free mixed transactions - if the projects is successful, thus we are assuming all the risk.

Yes, for the MVP DXD holders will only get free/discounted to anonymize their assets but it is a good base product to build services on top of it.

4.) There is no mention of ownership by the DXDAO, it sounds like we will host everything for you and you will develop code get paid and probably leave it to us and the end, when finance runs dry. This is highlighted by your non integration with REP/DXDAO holders and revenue sources.

The DXdao will own mix.eth, which is an important asset especially if it actually gives access to an untouchable portfolio manager with DeFi and privacy as a focus. The code will be AGPL so everyone in the world can build and fork it.

I believe the core issue we (the people who are driving the progress/development of mix) need to address is a roadmap for Mix which will give investors an insight of how it could be DXdao´s flagship product also in terms of revenue generation.(Which will all go to the DXD holders)

4 Likes