GEN-locking mechanics primer [Important for Genesis members!]

How GEN locking will work, as far as I know (Math warning, skip to the second section for takeaways!)

  • GEN locking will be enabled in Genesis with a new scheme, added via proposal in the Scheme Registrar.

  • Once GEN locking is active, the new scheme will start tracking GEN-locking periods of [1 month].

  • At any time, anyone can lock any amount of GEN for up to [12] periods. For example, I can lock 10,000 GEN for 10 periods. I will be able to get my 10,000 back after 10 periods have passed.

  • At the end of each period, GEN lockers are each given a score, S = N x T, where N is the number of locked periods left and T is the number of tokens they have locked.

  • Also at the end of each period n, the scheme will distribute R reputation to people proportionally to their score S, where R=[R_0]x[a^n], -1 < a < 1. This means that each period, each GEN locker will get Reputation proportional to the amount of GEN they have locked and how much future time it is locked for.

  • Key note: The R_0 parameter controls the total amount of Reputation distributed through the entire lifetime of the locking scheme.

  • Other notes:

    • A given user can extend their lock, so if they locked 1000 GEN for 3 months, they can wait 2 months and then relock that GEN for another 10 months without unlocking it.
    • They can also create additional GEN locks, so one user could have 1000 GEN locked for 3 months and another 2000 GEN locked for 5 months simultaneously.
    • The GEN-locking scheme can run for a large number of periods, say [100].

[Brackets] denote params that the DAO can set for the locking scheme.

What current Genesis members should know

The DAO has complete control of how much plutocracy is created. In deciding the locking scheme parameters, we can decide the total amount of Reputation that can get distributed to lockers. This is because the equation controlling how much Reputation is distributed each period is a convergent geometric series: even with infinite periods, the total Reputation distributed will stay below a specified limit. In this case, that limit is R_0/(1-a). For example, let’s say we don’t want GEN lockers to receive more than 50% of the Reputation held by current members (~50,000): we could set a=0.9, R_0=2500.


Tech team, please correct any mistakes here! Sorry if I butchered anything.

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Admin note: moved to Genesis category

Wat?
I’m not sure what this sentence means.

Does the rest of that section make sense, though? I’m trying to say that Genesis can decide how much Reputation people can get through locking GEN (which is a form of paying for voting power, i.e. plutocracy). Probably shouldn’t have used the P-word :smile:

Edit: Also, there was an obvious typo there that I somehow only just saw :roll_eyes:

Yes, the rest makes sense from a functional point of view. I’m still unconvinced that locking GEN is useful for impacting the price, particularly if it is the action taken after an auction (aka it does not affect the current float).

Hi Ivan, very relevant question. I suggest you come to our next community call tomorrow, Tuesday at 5pm CET in this zoom room
Adam will demo the necDAO version of the locking scheme which will be live on Dec 11th. We will have some time for questions and further clarifications about the locking scheme, hope you can make it.

Yes, the original post doesn’t comment on this, but also: I would argue that increasing GEN price is not the main point of the locking scheme. The main point in my view is to give Reputation to a group of people with good reason to make smart decisions about increasing GEN’s utility.

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Are there interested parties lined up right now to buy and lock GEN for the REP outcome? I understand the theoretical aspect, but without the demand, who cares?

Also, coinmarketcap.com says there is 41,295,043 GEN circulating out of 60MM total.

  1. Is this correct(ish)?
  2. Where are the other 19MM GEN?
  3. How many does GenDAO currently have at hand?
  4. How many would be auctioned, how often?

Good question. I can’t speak for all independent GEN holders of course, but I can definitely say that the DAOstack marketing team will be doing a campaign to let GEN holders know about the opportunity, and we hope they will be interested in participating.

I don’t know anything about coinmarketcap and that side of things, sorry.

It looks like there are time periods to “lock up” prior to the REP distribution. Please tell me if this is correct:

There will be a “Period 1” from Time Xstart through Time Xend in which all GEN locked is considered for the “GEN locked REP distribution pool”. If I lock 1% of the total GEN lacked in Period 1 then I am granted 1% of the REP distribution from the pool. After the Period 1 is over, REP is distributed and Period 2 begins. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

Correct?

Also - how can I, a lowly and curious plutocrat, totally innocently see exactly how much GEN has been locked so far such that I could, theoretically but really just out of intellectual curiosity, calculate how much GEN I need to lock in the closing seconds of Period 1 in order to completely dominate the REP distribution? In other words - how easy is it for me to see the cost of the “REP PIG via GEN locking attack vector”?

^^^ I think this is an important question. I believe It has been ignored so far. ^^^

@ezra_w any inputs on my questions from a few days back?

This one?

Also - how can I, a lowly and curious plutocrat, totally innocently see exactly how much GEN has been locked so far such that I could, theoretically but really just out of intellectual curiosity, calculate how much GEN I need to lock in the closing seconds of Period 1 in order to completely dominate the REP distribution? In other words - how easy is it for me to see the cost of the “REP PIG via GEN locking attack vector”?

It’s not really my department, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the interface gives this info up front. It’s not really an abuse to swoop in last minute here: this is essentially an auction mechanism after all. No worse than waiting for the last second in an eBay auction, I think. I’m sure there’s some optimization math to do that might say something a bit different, but that’s my intuitive 2c.

Also, apparently the mechanics here are changing, and the amount of Rep offered per period will now be constant, with a limited number of periods. So pretty different from the original post here, sorry for the confusion.

  1. I was mostly joking about the GEN locking REP swoop attack, though it may be a real thing… we will see. This also assumes anyone cares to try in the first place.

  2. “The mechanics here are changing” - there’s a general problem with communication in these systems. Forum posts are outdated, the telegram channel is supposed to be for guiding peeps to broader conversations here, nobody answers (my) questions on the forum until I harangue them… It’s a mess to try and learn anything beyond the fluffy happy DAO basics as far as what is going on, when, and what the new plan of any given aspect is. You say “apparently” - you don’t even know if they are actually changing even though you are writing the doc on how it works?!? I’m not giving you a hard time, just noting the system seems screwed from an info sharing and updating POV. Who in the GEN DAO ecosystem is responsible for keeping info accurate, complete, and available (or is there nobody…)? @papa_raw? @liviade? I’m asking…I don’t know.

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Hey @IvanThinking I agree the communication structure is a bit off, I think DAOtalk is great but Telegram is too messy. I personally like instant messaging but It just needs to be more structured (Like Slack/Rocket).
Also bear in it’s the holiday season so most of the DAOstack team won’t be fully available.

What we are doing is in its very Beta and like Ezra mentioned things are changing constantly as we refine the details and learn new things.

For your questions, I would actually take a look at NecDAO staking mechanism which shows what it might look like. This blog post also explains in-depth how things will work.

Happy to answer other questions (If I can) on TG, or in the community groups.

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