Financials and Funding of Genesis DAO

Hi everyone,

For a while we have wanted to switch to using DAI as a payment due to the volatility of ETH. There also seems to be a need for some proposers to be paid in GEN (see debt spreadsheet above). We could convert DAI or ETH to GEN when it comes in or have it paid in automatically as per the options below. Our plan was to start this in December. First we want to get a sense of what you think is a good starting point.

The $40K payment from DAOstack to Genesis should be:

    • 50 % ETH, 50% DAI, 0 % GEN
    • 50 % ETH , 40 % DAI, 10 % GEN
    • 40 % ETH, 50 % DAI, 10 % GEN
    • 40 % ETH, 40 % DAI, 20 % GEN

0 voters

(the first option means we convert to GEN ourselves)

Or add your ideal configuration or comments and feedback below.

Tagging some people who have expressed opinions on this @Jantine @AdrienDLT @Luuk

Suggestion for alternatives;

  • Use lower percentage of Dai (maybe 20-30% of the total?)

  • Instead of Dai use a stable coin that is earning an interest: cDai ?

When the people demand DAI, the market has bottomed :wink:


Advocating for fifth option:

100% GEN

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DAI held by the DAO can be invested in compound and earn interest (What you refer to as cDAI)
I do want to have someone implement this - should be an easy scheme to develop

I believe @AdrienDLT has a DAOtalk post on this, proposing using GEN for rewarding contributors.
The longer term vision is defiantly using GEN for this as part of growing the GEN economy. might be too early to reward 100% in GEN since there’s not enough liquidity, but i will definitely support awarding part of the funds (like 20%-30%) in GEN. it could be a social agreement that we request rewards in DAI+GEN or ETH+GEN (80%+20%) or something along these lines

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How are you independently stimulating usage of GEN, thereby increasing velocity and utility and then from that, liquidity? It seems like you are saying “we don’t have enough liquidity because nobody is using it so we won’t give it to people to use because of liquidity”… Accepting an illiquid payment is one of the biggest votes of confidence I can imagine.

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When the people demand DAI, the market has bottomed :wink:

I know this is a bit of a troll, but this is of course not the only explanation. Workers depending on their payment don’t want to be paid for their work in an unstable currency.

WRT paying people in 100% GEN, we have incentive to do it at least a bit, despite its volatility, because it encourages people to try staking, and it’s a way of sort of forcing people to have more skin in the game. “Forcing” being the important word, because this is not a healthy or sustainable (or “utility oriented”…) way to grow the economy of a utility token. Ultimately, GEN’s value is tied to its utility in powering holographic consensus (or other metagovernance uses, which I encourage people to experiment with), so I think we should focus most of our energy on increasing that utility (i.e. growing demand for holographic consensus). I’d advocate for always including some GEN in payments but not paying people in 100% GEN: that seems like a bandaid that’s bad for workers and makes us look greedy.

I agree, we should get there, but also wanted to put the other side of it which is people constantly selling GEN in the market since they need the money, before there’s enough utility / demand in the market.
That’s why i proposed 80/20, so they do have some Gen to staje with and HODL, but they can take care of their cash flow.

As utility grows, for sure.

One of the ways Genesis will pay in the future is theough Locked GN tokens

70% DAI, 20% ETH, 10% GEN.

But that’s not a rigid opinion, if the Genesis DAO has to convert a lot of DAI to payout its contributors then the config should be updated accordingly (ie iterate config every 2 months)

Not enough liquidity means:
1/ massive price slippage - extremely poor conversion rates
2/ token price plummets if I sell as little as 2000 USD worth of GEN

Until the GEN token has more liquidity, rewarding significant amounts to gendao contributors in GEN will affect its price negatively.

Yes, here it is Automatic GEN reward to proposals that pass

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Since we need to decide on the funding for the month of December, and since there are multiple opinions here, I suggest the funding will go in ETH as usual, first to cover the ~100 ETH debt, and second, the DAO will decide how much to convert once they reach a conclusion.

My recommendation is to decide on a 80/20 mix of ETH/GEN or DAI/GEN, but since the UX and the protocol currently allow only ETH + other token, it’s impossible to use DAI + GEN in 1 proposal, so we need to consider it.

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Hi Lior, thanks for bringing this up.
Is there somewhere an overview kept of approved proposals and the outstanding debt?
With our proposal for the legal blog post series, we anticipated on the next round of funding in Decmber being partially paid out in DAI as well, since originally it was mentioned by Kate next time it would be 50% paid out in DAI and 50% in ETH. I would understand, to change this matrix a bit towards a higher percentage of ETH, but 100 ETH debt is the value of 14.800 dollar, which is less of half of the total funding right?
I still would vote for having some percentage paid out in DAI, since we are not all ETH speculators :slight_smile:

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The whole “locked GEN” token and GEN token auction gambits seem really sketchy to me, like a house of cards.

  1. Has this been done somewhere else?
  2. Are there any finance/economists talking about this idea that you can point me to?

What’s the liquidity of GEN like? Can we use Uniswap? If so, what’s the slippage range if I were to exchange for DAI?

UPDATE (and reminder). The payments from December will change from being once a month to being every two weeks. The aim of this is to help with our budgeting process

@Lior will shortly update on how the breakdown between ETH, DAI…

First payment of 20k$ wil be done in ETH to help cover the DAO debt, , next payment in 2 weeks time will be done in DAI.

People are welcome to propose conversions to GEN or ETH or DAI to support the DAO’s funding needs, such as DAO stake rewards

That’s exactly what just came up in a conversation with Ori and Jordan on a github issue. I created this thread to get some opinions on how this could be solved

Correct. I have talked to Adam and Alex on this. It seem like a ~week work to patch this option, but the question will be priorotizing this vs other features, and if we don’t prefer to include it in the next protocol version , and invest our efforts on other imrpovments that drive adoption.

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This will introduce a heavy sell pressure, probably not healthy at the current market depth…

You’re surely trolling lol